I agree with a number of point raised by Charlie, including that this is a thought provoking essay. But I do think that parents owe non-parents a better explanation than the default or "just wait until you have your own kids." I love that you are teasing out this hidden and mostly unspoken dynamic that absolutely goes on between non-parents and parents. I just deleted the rest of my comment which was over 700 words and I realize is misplaced here in your comment section. I'm all riled up, in a good way, by your very worthwhile consideration about why parents don't listen to non-parents. I need to work with it a bit, and perhaps it will be separate post in reply.
Thank you Rick. I look forward to reading the full post :)
I think both groups have much to learn from one another. Parents are able to share from the experiences crossing the chasm Charlie mentioned, while non-parents can remind parents of their past-selves and offer (what I believe could be) much needed outsiders' opinion.
Ultimately, I'm not advocating which group has more value to offer but rather just that there's much learning we're missing out on.
Parents can certainly learn something from non-parents, but in my experience, 99.99% of advice from childless young people is just not good. There are certain experiential chasms across which it’s hard to communicate.
When you’re talking to high schoolers and college students, it’s hard to explain how much of your life and time a 40 hour per week job is. They might understand it logically, but not experientially or emotionally.
Similarly, having a child is so radically different than any other experience someone might go though before. Parent-child doesn’t really have any relational analogues. Friendships have similar friendships, and you can have similar relationships. But I’ve never known anyone as well as I know my daughter, and never care about anyone this much, and never HAD to care for anyone this much.
I think the stakes are also a lot higher for parents than product managers. My understanding of product management is that you try to figure out the best project that is in a usability wheelhouse for a huge number of consumers. Each child is very unique and each parent is very unique.
So yeah thought provoking essay and I’ll be interested to see where you go with this.
Thanks for the thoughtful words Charlie. Stakes are indeed different with product work yet I imagine you'd agree that experimentation is required with both.
The maturity of non-parents will surly change from person to person. But with many people having their first child past 30 we're dealing here with 10 years of adulthood in which non-parents are kept out of the conversation. Far from just high-school and college students.
Finally. I'd imagine that if the vast majority of non-parents have no idea what they are talking about then maybe we should strive to talk about it so they get some idea. Why wait? Many non-parents are mature enough to have these conversations and at the very least learn more about themselves and how they would like to act once they cross the chasm.
I really enjoyed this, Or. I love the idea that a non-parent’s insights may come from “unrelated fields like physics or fishing” - I completely agree!
Five months into our parenting journey, I’m really enjoying the academic side of it all. We regularly open up conversations around the dinner table of our thought process, our “wins and losses” and things we’re battling with. Non-parent siblings and friends have been both curious and insightful.
My favourite resource has been Emily Oster’s books (her Substack too). I’m currently working on a draft essay on the impact of her work on our little family and will share it with you once it’s up on Substack!
I agree with a number of point raised by Charlie, including that this is a thought provoking essay. But I do think that parents owe non-parents a better explanation than the default or "just wait until you have your own kids." I love that you are teasing out this hidden and mostly unspoken dynamic that absolutely goes on between non-parents and parents. I just deleted the rest of my comment which was over 700 words and I realize is misplaced here in your comment section. I'm all riled up, in a good way, by your very worthwhile consideration about why parents don't listen to non-parents. I need to work with it a bit, and perhaps it will be separate post in reply.
Thank you Rick. I look forward to reading the full post :)
I think both groups have much to learn from one another. Parents are able to share from the experiences crossing the chasm Charlie mentioned, while non-parents can remind parents of their past-selves and offer (what I believe could be) much needed outsiders' opinion.
Ultimately, I'm not advocating which group has more value to offer but rather just that there's much learning we're missing out on.
Yes, totally agreed that facilitating more cross exchange between the two groups is a worthwhile endeavor.
Parents can certainly learn something from non-parents, but in my experience, 99.99% of advice from childless young people is just not good. There are certain experiential chasms across which it’s hard to communicate.
When you’re talking to high schoolers and college students, it’s hard to explain how much of your life and time a 40 hour per week job is. They might understand it logically, but not experientially or emotionally.
Similarly, having a child is so radically different than any other experience someone might go though before. Parent-child doesn’t really have any relational analogues. Friendships have similar friendships, and you can have similar relationships. But I’ve never known anyone as well as I know my daughter, and never care about anyone this much, and never HAD to care for anyone this much.
I think the stakes are also a lot higher for parents than product managers. My understanding of product management is that you try to figure out the best project that is in a usability wheelhouse for a huge number of consumers. Each child is very unique and each parent is very unique.
So yeah thought provoking essay and I’ll be interested to see where you go with this.
Thanks for the thoughtful words Charlie. Stakes are indeed different with product work yet I imagine you'd agree that experimentation is required with both.
The maturity of non-parents will surly change from person to person. But with many people having their first child past 30 we're dealing here with 10 years of adulthood in which non-parents are kept out of the conversation. Far from just high-school and college students.
Finally. I'd imagine that if the vast majority of non-parents have no idea what they are talking about then maybe we should strive to talk about it so they get some idea. Why wait? Many non-parents are mature enough to have these conversations and at the very least learn more about themselves and how they would like to act once they cross the chasm.
I really enjoyed this, Or. I love the idea that a non-parent’s insights may come from “unrelated fields like physics or fishing” - I completely agree!
Five months into our parenting journey, I’m really enjoying the academic side of it all. We regularly open up conversations around the dinner table of our thought process, our “wins and losses” and things we’re battling with. Non-parent siblings and friends have been both curious and insightful.
My favourite resource has been Emily Oster’s books (her Substack too). I’m currently working on a draft essay on the impact of her work on our little family and will share it with you once it’s up on Substack!
Really glad you linked back to this essay today!
Thank you Nic. My wife and I love Emily’s writing as well. Looking forward to reading your essay!